To all the performers out there, as the title says "Don't do gigs for free" People booking entertainers for shows ALL HAVE A BUDGET and doing stuff for free undermines everyone who's doing this as a career as well as getting a name for yourself as a free performer. Those of you who expect people to turn up and do a gig for free entry, DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY YEARS WE HAVE SPENT DEVELOPING OUR SKILLS? Expecting people to turn up and do it for nothing is taking the p£ss out of us bigtime. Entertainment is a respectable industry, lets all help keep it that way.

I quite agree. Think of all those years I've been practitcing... :D

Im pretty sure i agree with you in part...
Definatly if its for a paid entrance event then it really does just take the piss giving people free entry for performing. However, if its a free entry event or for charity then its a completly different affair (although withsome charity events performers should be encouraged to make a donation themselves... ok, youre supporting the charity by giving some of your time [which is great in itself] but seeing as youre there then why not put your money where your 'heart' is!)

Moving right away from specifically juggling for a minute, just thinking about music gigs, would you say that young bands should never do gigs, with paid entry, for free? I think people expect that if theyre going to be paying for entertainment, theyre gonna get what they pay for. If thats nothing then they really cant expect anything special! Ive played in bands, done sound for touring bands etc, ive seen plenty of kids (and older kids just starting out!) putting loads of effort into it and then walk way from the evening with not even a free drink to show for it..... but the more experienced guys who are better, who've put years and years of their life and effort into perfecting their skills, are still getting the paid work, theyre not being stopped by the guys doing things gigs for free. They work together, the younger ones support the more advanced guys, gradually getting paid gigs etc.

I'd be amazed if in the world of circussy type shows it wasnt a similar scene? If youre paying, you expect a show, if not, then yeah you may get a show, you might get something thats not that interesting to watch, you might get a bit of 'wallpaper' or a 'plant' to fill in a visual gap.

Ummm.... bugger! ive just gone into uber ramble and have completly lost my point, im gonna leave the unfinished ramblings though cos it may come back to me later and it may have gotten across what im on about!

But yeah, i do agree, it really does take the piss if you are trying to run a themed night with performances for free. Yes it will be fun for those performing but as you say, its not all that respectful towards those that have been ploughing all their time and effort into making their passion a career.

Right, well ive probably contradicted myself plenty so i shall leave it there for now!!

Doug

I agree with you on many points there Doug, if its a free party or charity then yeah...
But when its a event where tickets are being sold then a proportion of that should go to entertainment! people do take the p*ss by saying there is no payment! no payment no show! no show less atmosphere.. less atmosphere less people... less people less tickets sold... less tickets sold less money! simple.
Dont sell yourself out spinners... know your worth

I like rants! It's nice to have a talent/skill/passion that you can share with people. I'm trying to open peoples eyes to the fact that it's easy to be taken advantage of in this industry.

I don't want to always get paid. I do it because I'm a pyromaniac and I'm in love with poi, not for money, and sorry to any paid performers who have a problem with that but seriously, how is it your right to tell me how to use my skills? If you want to get paid then you have to put on a show that is considerably better than my amateur efforts, I suppose!

I have had free entrance to things, but nothing more than that.

I've just been involved with putting on a festival that was a blinding success, but we only *just* made our money back. Festivals have budgets, but they're generally tight and a lot of them are put on primarily because the organisers love partying - small festivals don't turn over much profit at all - if any. The three guys that arranged this festival didn't even get paid to do it, I spent half the year making art for it and didn't get a bean.

Fair enough Lu, I see your point and I'm not telling you how to spin your life but a lot of pro performers have a lot of things in place that you might not have considered, such as CRB checks, Public Liability Insurance and a whole bunch of equipment that puts a much more profesional element behind a performance. If you want to do stuff for free and for fun, that's your desicion but thats all you'll ever get offered and as Si said, you know what you're worth

I totally agree with lu_lemon.

I have done paid jobs and non-paid jobs before...but the way I see it is, the places that don't pay me are more inviting me to entertain people. I like to entertain people...I entertain people becuase I want to...and if I can entertain people just by allowing them to witness me practicing my passion then every-body wins. All that's different is that I am practicing at at a place I usually would not...but for the audience, it's worth it.

Although there is no deanying that getting paid is nice and that I would never turn down money for it, I think that telling people not to perform without pay is stupid.

I think this is one of those situations where its quite hard to find exactly where the line is...
There are definatly plenty of situations where its fine to do unpaid performances, but at which point does going unpaid start becoming unfair on pro performers?

I personally think that if youre doing it for a mate or at a free/charity event then fine. But if youve been approached by someone that you dont know to do a show where there is an entrance fee, you should not offer it for free. If you offer it for free now, next time the person that 'hired' you hires someone else, theyre not going to want to pay for the entertainment... theyre probably going to want a better show, theyre not going to go straight to the pro performers.... it needs everyone to stand their ground and get payment for their skills otherwise its only going to damage opportunities for those that are actually trying to make a living from it.

I must add that i dont perform any of my juggling/spinning, i do it purly for fun and relaxation hwoever when i have been paid for my skills i have found that ive pushed myself far more and as a result have improved on what im capable of..... i think theres a risk of complacency if your donating your skills for free and this is in no way good when members of the public are paying for your services.

Doug

yes i think its definitely a case of just who is asking for your services,

how much wud they be charged by some other pro performer,
what are you gonna have to do in order to do the gig,

and def dont b afraid to stick an extra quid or two onto everything because if they are the kind of people that say run bars/clubs and want you to perform remember it is not their money

they arent gonna go upto a dj and say can you bring all your records up to our bar, then play a 3 hour set for nothing, of course they are gonna pay them, even if it is only in drinks.

if it was a charity event then of course id spin for free, if i was severely lackin in cash i wud ask them for travel n fuel expense maybe but that wud be it.

but bottom line, if these people want you to perform and they are going to make something for themselves or a profit making organisation then dont b afraid to get what you can out of them

that extra cash means you can do more free gigs to worthy causes and generally jus have more money to spend on toys :)